What a fantastic article. I live in Montana, and the same goes for the West. If you want to live in Bozeman, Missoula or even Billings, the costs will keep you a slave to credit unless you are a trust fund baby. But there are amazing places like Scobey, or Plains where there are cheap places to buy. You are exactly right that the cold, and isolation scares people off, but they fail to see how beautiful it can be. Without going into all the benefits of learning to be tough, one of the things young people should think about is their kids. Growing up in the country is probably the biggest gift you can ever give to your kids. Leaving in the morning after doing chores, and returning just in time to do chores again, while running wild with your dog and siblings is worth more than any culture in the big city. I promise.
I love your articles about upstate New York -- they're why I subscribed in the first place. But at the same time I have questions about your upstate boosterism. Living for $432 a month using a kind of syncretism of subsistence techniques, as you recommend, requires certain skills that are no longer universal.
For one thing, the house requires repair. If the person who buys it doesn't know how to fix it himself, he will need to know who to ask, which presumes at least a small degree of embeddedness in a community. And he will need to know HOW to ask. To have venison in the freezer and fish on the table assumes a familiarity with hunting and fishing that I suspect (perhaps wrongly) that many reading this or other Substacks lack.
The hypothetical person relocating to these isolated villages will also be a stranger. Are these communities welcoming to lone strangers? What if the newcomer comes with cultural, ethnic, religious, or ideological differences -- will the community be receptive, or will these differences bring disruption to it and even more isolation to the relocator? Conversely, what if the people who read this (or any Substack) relocate to Massena and similar places en masse? Will the place be altered so that it no longer possesses the selling points you describe?
You are already a community of two, soon to be three. Keturah grew up with the Amish so has certain inroads into their community that most newcomers would not possess. But I think that most people who might take you up on your challenge would be lonely and isolated. It's not a negligible cost of living that makes for a good life in America. It's community, and the lack of it is why people are on Substack to begin with.
I have the same thoughts when reading. But my thoughts are going in different directions. Like, what if those “boomers” sold their house in suburb-ville and took all that equity and bought land for themselves and their kids and/or grandchildren. Then everyone moves together and gets away from the rat race and has a community together. We have lost the generosity of generational living. I think what bothers many of the younger generations is how we see the boomers spending all their wealth and time on Costco and cruises. They see their struggling kids but do nothing or do minimal. What’s the point of all this family and money if you hoard it for yourself and your hobbies? It really takes a change in mentality to make what Hickman is writing about possible. But I so appreciate him writing about it. We need someone to wake up our imaginations.
Again this would be importing one's own community into another community. I'm curious about how well newcomers would be integrated into the existing community and whether and how this kind of importation would change the original community.
Any new person that comes into any community, be it small or large (country, town, job or church) is going to change that place. The question is rather, can you come to a new place and make it better. Not in a "I'm gonna change this place way" but in a natural way. Hickman seems to be writing about places that he says are "dying." Would a living town not be better? It seems all we know now is unrestricted growth (such as I see in my suburb Atlanta county) or slow dying small towns. Surely there is a vibrant middle ground.
Back to basics has its appeal to this 66 year old retiree. Not sure I have the handyman skills to maneuver such a feat, however. For the youngsters, it seems like a pretty good idea. The rat race is not what it's all cracked up to be. The decades will whiz by and you'll wake up at 65 or 66, wondering where it all went.
We are. We do what the Amish do -- pay cash where possible, treat every issue that can be treated at home at home, and in the event we find ourselves with long-term illnesses that require intensive treatment, we have contacts in Mexico where we can stay, pay cash, and participate in a more reasonable healthcare system.
I’m new here but ever since one of my other favorite newsletters “Tangle” plugged your article on cheaper living in out of the way places I’ve been binging your material (mostly through the audio format). I appreciate a lot of what you have to say, I enjoyed your treatment of tobacco and the puritan strain in American culture a great deal.
I do have to say, though I’ve tumbled to similar conclusions about why modern life is so expensive and part of it is choice, I do believe your treatment of the youth is a little unfair. As an older millennial I have many similar criticisms of my own cohort and the one coming up. That being said, the “American Dream” as presented in the modern context has always been about “doing better than your parents”, meaning bigger house, easier job, more money, more toys, more eating out, and more consumption generally. With that in mind I don’t think it is wrong for young people to feel a bit cheated as the system was set up. We were told to go to college, get a big house and a white collar job and to spend our lives doing what we desired. I think it is natural to be mad when it is revealed that the “American Dream” as presented is out of reach.
I am all for criticizing that version of the dream and buying a small house in an out of the way place when you grew up in “better” circumstances is by the contemporary definition doing worse than your parents. When a generation or two are mislead they can be a little angry and it’s okay.
My wife and I deliberately chose a simpler life, we have a small affordable home in a small town. I’ve gotten involved in local government, volunteer at the local historical society, work in the village community garden as well as grow another garden on our small lot and raise chickens. It was easier for us because both of us grew up relatively poor, her in a small town and me on a farm so we are used to the life so to speak. We also benefit from having a small local industrial base in our village and being relatively close to a metropolitan area (though that is driving prices up even as far out as we are). Additionally, we have both managed to work our way into decent jobs and gotten our loans paid off for our education. Someday we hope to move further out and we joke about simpler jobs and more gardening/subsistence farming. All of that is to say, to a certain degree, there is an element of choice and young people could choose to get involved more, I’m often asked by the old timers how to get more young people involved as a lot of local civic groups are dying through lack of new members…I always shrug because I don’t know and it’s a shame.
I like what you say even when I disagree strongly with some of what you’ve said or at least how you say it. Your writing is thought provoking, thank you.
What a fantastic article. I live in Montana, and the same goes for the West. If you want to live in Bozeman, Missoula or even Billings, the costs will keep you a slave to credit unless you are a trust fund baby. But there are amazing places like Scobey, or Plains where there are cheap places to buy. You are exactly right that the cold, and isolation scares people off, but they fail to see how beautiful it can be. Without going into all the benefits of learning to be tough, one of the things young people should think about is their kids. Growing up in the country is probably the biggest gift you can ever give to your kids. Leaving in the morning after doing chores, and returning just in time to do chores again, while running wild with your dog and siblings is worth more than any culture in the big city. I promise.
I love your articles about upstate New York -- they're why I subscribed in the first place. But at the same time I have questions about your upstate boosterism. Living for $432 a month using a kind of syncretism of subsistence techniques, as you recommend, requires certain skills that are no longer universal.
For one thing, the house requires repair. If the person who buys it doesn't know how to fix it himself, he will need to know who to ask, which presumes at least a small degree of embeddedness in a community. And he will need to know HOW to ask. To have venison in the freezer and fish on the table assumes a familiarity with hunting and fishing that I suspect (perhaps wrongly) that many reading this or other Substacks lack.
The hypothetical person relocating to these isolated villages will also be a stranger. Are these communities welcoming to lone strangers? What if the newcomer comes with cultural, ethnic, religious, or ideological differences -- will the community be receptive, or will these differences bring disruption to it and even more isolation to the relocator? Conversely, what if the people who read this (or any Substack) relocate to Massena and similar places en masse? Will the place be altered so that it no longer possesses the selling points you describe?
You are already a community of two, soon to be three. Keturah grew up with the Amish so has certain inroads into their community that most newcomers would not possess. But I think that most people who might take you up on your challenge would be lonely and isolated. It's not a negligible cost of living that makes for a good life in America. It's community, and the lack of it is why people are on Substack to begin with.
I have the same thoughts when reading. But my thoughts are going in different directions. Like, what if those “boomers” sold their house in suburb-ville and took all that equity and bought land for themselves and their kids and/or grandchildren. Then everyone moves together and gets away from the rat race and has a community together. We have lost the generosity of generational living. I think what bothers many of the younger generations is how we see the boomers spending all their wealth and time on Costco and cruises. They see their struggling kids but do nothing or do minimal. What’s the point of all this family and money if you hoard it for yourself and your hobbies? It really takes a change in mentality to make what Hickman is writing about possible. But I so appreciate him writing about it. We need someone to wake up our imaginations.
Again this would be importing one's own community into another community. I'm curious about how well newcomers would be integrated into the existing community and whether and how this kind of importation would change the original community.
Any new person that comes into any community, be it small or large (country, town, job or church) is going to change that place. The question is rather, can you come to a new place and make it better. Not in a "I'm gonna change this place way" but in a natural way. Hickman seems to be writing about places that he says are "dying." Would a living town not be better? It seems all we know now is unrestricted growth (such as I see in my suburb Atlanta county) or slow dying small towns. Surely there is a vibrant middle ground.
Back to basics has its appeal to this 66 year old retiree. Not sure I have the handyman skills to maneuver such a feat, however. For the youngsters, it seems like a pretty good idea. The rat race is not what it's all cracked up to be. The decades will whiz by and you'll wake up at 65 or 66, wondering where it all went.
My friend, simply stated, simply explained and best of all, simply brilliant.
Who is paying for your health care?
We are. We do what the Amish do -- pay cash where possible, treat every issue that can be treated at home at home, and in the event we find ourselves with long-term illnesses that require intensive treatment, we have contacts in Mexico where we can stay, pay cash, and participate in a more reasonable healthcare system.
I’m new here but ever since one of my other favorite newsletters “Tangle” plugged your article on cheaper living in out of the way places I’ve been binging your material (mostly through the audio format). I appreciate a lot of what you have to say, I enjoyed your treatment of tobacco and the puritan strain in American culture a great deal.
I do have to say, though I’ve tumbled to similar conclusions about why modern life is so expensive and part of it is choice, I do believe your treatment of the youth is a little unfair. As an older millennial I have many similar criticisms of my own cohort and the one coming up. That being said, the “American Dream” as presented in the modern context has always been about “doing better than your parents”, meaning bigger house, easier job, more money, more toys, more eating out, and more consumption generally. With that in mind I don’t think it is wrong for young people to feel a bit cheated as the system was set up. We were told to go to college, get a big house and a white collar job and to spend our lives doing what we desired. I think it is natural to be mad when it is revealed that the “American Dream” as presented is out of reach.
I am all for criticizing that version of the dream and buying a small house in an out of the way place when you grew up in “better” circumstances is by the contemporary definition doing worse than your parents. When a generation or two are mislead they can be a little angry and it’s okay.
My wife and I deliberately chose a simpler life, we have a small affordable home in a small town. I’ve gotten involved in local government, volunteer at the local historical society, work in the village community garden as well as grow another garden on our small lot and raise chickens. It was easier for us because both of us grew up relatively poor, her in a small town and me on a farm so we are used to the life so to speak. We also benefit from having a small local industrial base in our village and being relatively close to a metropolitan area (though that is driving prices up even as far out as we are). Additionally, we have both managed to work our way into decent jobs and gotten our loans paid off for our education. Someday we hope to move further out and we joke about simpler jobs and more gardening/subsistence farming. All of that is to say, to a certain degree, there is an element of choice and young people could choose to get involved more, I’m often asked by the old timers how to get more young people involved as a lot of local civic groups are dying through lack of new members…I always shrug because I don’t know and it’s a shame.
I like what you say even when I disagree strongly with some of what you’ve said or at least how you say it. Your writing is thought provoking, thank you.
I feel like a piker living in the city with fiber Internet, a car in the garage and more computers than TVs. God bless you, sir.